#1703242 - 09/08/09 07:07 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: jbirdwsk]
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Comic Book Guy
Worst. Episode. Ever.
SD First guy voted off Survivor
Registered: 08/11/09
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holy huge pics batman!
resize those so they fit on my screen.
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#1703248 - 09/08/09 07:16 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: Comic Book Guy]
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jbirdwsk
SD Ralph Wiggum
Registered: 08/20/09
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lol sorry about that, I re-sized them. Another ?, so one of the wires from my positive terminal to down somewhere beneath the fuse box (where I can't get to) is just a ground. So I should be able to run it anywhere I can ground it correct? What the heck do I do with the stock wire? I bought battery terminals that take 0/4 wire staight (Konfused terminals from KnuKonceptz) so I can't just keep the old wire hooked up. But I can't just leave it dangling either.
Sorry if I sound like a noob here, but I'm not figuring it all out on my own.
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#1703268 - 09/08/09 08:07 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: jbirdwsk]
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keep_hope_alive
in another life, i'm a serial killer
SD I Power Bombed the Undertaker
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 13370
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
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first, clean your engine. get engine cleaner/degreaser, and clean the whole engine bay. follow the owner's manual for anything you might have to protect from water and carefully hand wash. this will help you find parts easier, and also stay clean.
second, nothing connected to the "positive terminal" is a ground. look closer and you'll see it goes somewhere, maybe the actual starter.
i prefer marine grade terminals for the big 3. whatever you use should be water resistant. cover the terminals with adhesive heat shrink for additional water protection.
the big 3:
battery to chassis is simple, but sometimes done incorrectly. obviously, you connect one end to the battery (-) terminal. the other end should go to the frame. you can replace the factory ground, but i've seen they are usually using a small bolt. make sure to sand away paint before you ground. then coat the final connection to prevent rust - silicone works fine. you won't be undoing this anytime soon.
engine block to chassis can be easy or tricky. i like to first find the factory bonding strap so i can reuse the locations. usually, the tranny housing has several unused bolt holes that you can snag onto. sanding is required here, but since the tranny housing should be aluminum, it won't rust. don't use silicone here due to heat. where the wire connects to the frame can be the same location as the battery ground if the wire lengths work out well. both my Honda Accord and Camry could use the same grounding point.
the alt positive to battery positive is not totally necessary for good performance if the factory wires are properly sized. if you upgrade the alt then you must upgrade the wiring. a factory alt can still benefit from a larger wire or additional wire due to decreased resistance. you need to fuse this at the battery. you also need to carefully choose your ring terminal as the alt post is very small. you need a ring terminal with a small hole. the factory wire will have a rubber boot to protect it from water and debris. try to keep as much of this as possible, i ended up making two small slits to allow a part of the boot to fold back a bit.
don't leave any wires hanging. if you replace the wire, replace it completely. it is ok to leave factory wires in place. if you replace the wires, don't remove them without putting the factory wires back. the vehicle needs these wires to function. 
you may have to remove parts to access the alternator. if you are not comfortable with this, find a mechanic friend who is willing to help you. this can be part of the process. i buy Toyota and Honda sedans because they are very easy to get into. my big 3 are in plain sight! i usually have to remove the air cleaner housing and battery to get full access to grounds. Ford and Chrysler are awful in my experience, but not impossible.
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#1703278 - 09/08/09 08:21 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: keep_hope_alive]
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jbirdwsk
SD Ralph Wiggum
Registered: 08/20/09
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AWESOME post thank you! I bought set screw terminals, they have Allen screws so I don't have to crimp anything. I'll definitely put some shrink wrap around them though. Everything else you brought up is good information. I didn't even think about cleaning the engine. Now you mention a small ring terminal for the ALT, the ones I got probably won't work, the hole is very small, but they're really thick.
Looks like I need to spend a bit more time planning this, thanks for the advice I appreciate it.
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#1703302 - 09/08/09 10:05 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: jbirdwsk]
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keep_hope_alive
in another life, i'm a serial killer
SD I Power Bombed the Undertaker
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 13370
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
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that's why we are here. the big 3 is pretty easy, and very beneficial to a sound system upgrade. i consider it the #1 requirement and i'm glad you're going to do it.
planning is key. find each location, look at it and the bolt so you know the correct ring size. make a check list and make sure you buy everything ahead of time. you can't drive your car in the middle of doing the big 3 unless you complete part of it and totally reassemble the car. taking some things apart is usually necessary.
don't use strut bolts for ground. don't use any bolts that require torquing or secure engine components or suspension components.
grounding the frame may require a hole be drilled. this is tough since you want to use bolts for grounds, not screws. you can't get to the other side of a frame so bolts are impossible unless you tap the frame steel to accept a fine thread bolt. the best option, in my opinion, is to use a factory frame grounding point. there are several available. you just need to do some cleaning, sanding, and choose the correct ring terminal.
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#1703633 - 09/09/09 04:07 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: keep_hope_alive]
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jbirdwsk
SD Ralph Wiggum
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 44
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Was told on Taurusclub the starter wire can be removed and replaced pretty easy. The ALT I'm going to have to remove the passenger side cowl, the cabin filter, and the cowl housing. Sounds difficult, but maybe it's not too bad lol. As for grounding the frame, I see a few spots on the top that look perfect, not sure what it is, but it has 4 or 5 bolts in a circular pattern holding something down. I was going to use this for my negative ground, it's on the top of the engine pretty close to the battery. Looking at my positive terminal I see 2 wires in 1 loom going down behind the fuse box. One's to the starter I'm assuming the other is to the chassy, I'll just run to that to the same point as my negative ground.
I HATE my car lol, if I had a Honda, or even just a non DOHC Taurus, this whole process would be done and had taken me 30-45 minutes. This stupid POS I got is making this into a big project. Oh well, the end results will be worth it.
Edited by jbirdwsk (09/09/09 04:46 PM)
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#1703778 - 09/09/09 10:10 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: jbirdwsk]
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keep_hope_alive
in another life, i'm a serial killer
SD I Power Bombed the Undertaker
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 13370
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
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first, "pretty easy" is only true for mechanics. if you are not comfortable working on engine parts, this will not be "easy". it's still possible if you take your time and have the manual for the car.
never ground to bolts that hold parts on. they are 1) not good grounds, and 2) can result in damage to the part. remember that you're doing this to increase current, grounds have current also.
look for a "engine block" ground on the transmission housing. don't use one that isn't for a ground already or isn't an open threaded hole.
looking at my positive terminal I see 2 wires in 1 loom going down behind the fuse box. One's to the starter I'm assuming the other is to the chassy, I'll just run to that to the same point as my negative ground.
re-read this. you're saying you are going to ground the positive terminal of the battery. if you don't see a problem with that then i must ask you step away from this project. there are two wires on the positive terminal - one goes to the starter, the other to the vehicle's fuse box. you can't assume you know where they go, you need to see them and trace them to their end. are you going to replace them each with 4 awg wire so they fit in your terminal? are you sure you can even land that on the fuse box? you do not want to compromise the water resistant seals on the fuse box. you do not want to do any damage or modifications to your fuse box.
make sure you can visually inspect each location before you start this. you need to have the wire routing planned out, and the correct terminals ready to attach. if you can set aside a day, and have a spare vehicle so you can go to the store if necessary, that is best.
i'm am going into this in detail because you are doing a lot more than the big 3. you are rewiring the highest current carrying conductors in the vehicle. this will take you most of a day. and if you fawk up, you'll explode the battery and damage a lot of the engine compartment with battery acid.
i just want to make sure you think things through.
i'm an electrical engineer with the better part of two decades experience working in and around vehicles. i've built my own engine before, i've done a lot of work on my own vehicles both mechanically and electrically, and i have a very intimate knowledge of electricity and how things work. i would not replace the factory power wiring unless it had failed. i do not believe a sound system should ever compromise the basic functionality of the vehicle unless you don't plan on putting license plates on it. i add to the vehicle and upgrade what is required for proper protection.
your factory wiring is fine as-is. the big 3 is very helpful and you can do that with minimal effort. your $15 battery terminal is the wrong one. get a terminal that accepts your factory wiring and your new wiring and save yourself money, hassle, and possibly a lot more money. hell, you can walk into any auto parts store and buy a simple battery terminal for $5 that will accept any ring terminal. you can land factory wires on it and you can land your new power wire on it. later, if you want to get something that looks nicer, feel free. but make sure it is compatible with your existing wiring first. the KonFused connectors are nice, but better suited for a different vehicle or extra batteries.
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#1703785 - 09/09/09 10:50 PM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: keep_hope_alive]
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jbirdwsk
SD Ralph Wiggum
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 44
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I plan to follow every wire to see where they go, the wires on the fuse box are on the side, there's a little slide panel. It doesn't exactly cover them 100%. I'll make sure to shrink wrap the connectors so no water can effect them. About the positive to ground lol I don't know why I mentioned that. My brain was sort of fried eairler from being out in the heat. I just plan to see what wire goes where and re-wire as needed. I'm not going to get fancy, rush or do anything I'm un-sure of. A neighbor today told me he'd help, he's pretty good with cars so I'm pretty much set. The only additional wire involved here is the starter one. And by the PDF diagrams I downloaded it's a straight shot from the battery to the starter. The fuse for it is in the fuse box. Shouldn't be hard at all to replace, and I did notice a few weeks ago when I was looking at the wiring, about 1/3 of it had broke off from the ring terminal - I'm not an electrical dude like you. But I know even if it's not bad, that can't be good. The wire one way or another needs to be replaced.
I'm grateful for your help here, I learned a lot and it will definitely help me carry out a good chunk of it on my own.
Edited by jbirdwsk (09/09/09 10:53 PM)
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#1703800 - 09/10/09 04:43 AM
Re: attempted to do the big 3 today, questions *pics*
[Re: jbirdwsk]
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keep_hope_alive
in another life, i'm a serial killer
SD I Power Bombed the Undertaker
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 13370
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
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cool. good luck!
you may notice overall performance improvements when you do this.
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