#1682684 - 07/21/09 03:47 PM
i now have turn off pop? wtf?
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1loudGXP
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Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Indiana
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So I just upgraded my amps and set up a new install. I added a kinetic battery ran with 1/0 to batt and ground, used all new power and ground wire for the amps themselves, have taken all necessary precautions to reduce induced noise, even have done the big 3 with 1/0.
Now, i have been doin car audio for a decade and have experienced all kinds of crap from noises and such, im no noob, but I have just been stumped by this...
when i turn it all on, its clean as a whistle, no whine no nothing. When I turn it off, i get an awful POP from one channel of the 2ch amp i JUST BOUGHT. I have since returned that amp 2 find that the new one did the same thing. so i thought, rcas maybe? so i switched sides and the noise comes from the same side. so i switched the amps output wires to the crossovers, the noise switched sides.
Could this be a grounding issue? I have had other pretty large systems in the past, including a similar one in the same car with crappier equipment with no issues at all. I did move the ground of the 2ch further away from the others because of location and logistics issues. amps are all grounded to chassis with 4guage. I cant imagine that i just got 2 bad amps in a row...
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Clarion MAX 685BT / SoundStream Tarantula 440.2 - PowerBass Extreme 3XL 6.5 comps / SS TRA620.4 - PBX 3XL 5.25, 6x9 / SS TRA2000.1 - PBX 3XL 15D / Kinetic Power Batteries / 04 Pontiac Bonneville GXP.
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#1682807 - 07/21/09 10:50 PM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: 1loudGXP]
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deaf tones
:mod in training:
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Do you have any gear in between the deck and the amps? Active crossover or linedriver perhaps? How did you run your remote turn on to the amp? Daisy chained off the deck? Or did you run a separate relay?
Typically that thump can be a result of the quick discharge in power that is still stored up in the amp when it's turned off. If you can get the amp to turn off and discharge before turning off the source, the issue should be alleviated.
Try this -- turn off the deck before turning off the vehicle. Do you still get the turn off thump?
If yes, take the test further and pick up a toggle switch. It's like a light switch but for 12v electronics. You can get them at kragen/o'riely or any auto parts store for ~$4. Do a quick run of primary wire from the + to the battery (or fused distrobution block), to the toggle, then to the remote turn on for the amp. Run the car and stereo as normal, leave the deck on, then switch the toggle to the amps off before turning off the vehicle. Do you still get the thump? Try it again, but change the sequence by turning the amps off, then the deck, then the car. Do you still get the thump?
A separate relay to turn the amp on/off should fix the issue. Make it its own run (not daisy chained off the deck). If that relay doesn't work, but the toggle method does, use the toggle to control the timing of the amps turn on/off. it's an annoying process, but it's a work around.
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#1683299 - 07/22/09 02:21 PM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: deaf tones]
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1loudGXP
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Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Indiana
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turn on lead runs to a bosch relay powering a 6 pos. small fuse holder that i used to fuse each output going to each amp. Ive used this setup before with no problems. I wouldnt think that its the relay going bad, i suppose I could always change it and see.
there is nothing in line between the hu and amps. I use the tsunami V10 rca cables. amps are all grounded with 4guage.
I tried turing off the hu before turning the car off. the amp did not pop when i turned off the hu but when I turned off the ignition it popped.
The only thing that changed from my previous install is that I now have an extra battery that is grounded directly to the stock battery, (i have a bonneville and the stock battery rides under the back seat so the ground is only about 20 inches long, run with 1/0) and the ground position for that particular amp changed. I had all the individual grounds attatched in the spare tire well, this amp is now grounded right behind the wheel well about 12 inches away from the previous ground.
I swear that a ground issue is all I can think of. The fact that Ive ruled out hu, rcas, amp, passive crossovers for comps, leads me to that conclusion. The assinine part is that I will have to uninstall my entire trunk to change the spot of the ground for that amp, so I was hoping someone could give me a bandaid cure like a ground loop isolator or something easy cuz I just spent way too much time on this damn thing last week...
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Clarion MAX 685BT / SoundStream Tarantula 440.2 - PowerBass Extreme 3XL 6.5 comps / SS TRA620.4 - PBX 3XL 5.25, 6x9 / SS TRA2000.1 - PBX 3XL 15D / Kinetic Power Batteries / 04 Pontiac Bonneville GXP.
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#1683337 - 07/22/09 03:21 PM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: 1loudGXP]
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deaf tones
:mod in training:
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try the toggle.
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#1687629 - 07/31/09 03:39 PM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: deaf tones]
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1loudGXP
SD Newbie
Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Indiana
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UPDATE
I moved the ground to a new spot, no difference. I also tried a toggle, which also yeilded no difference, the amp still popped with the toggle. I may need to complete my big 3 upgrade, I still need to ground chassis to block and run a new alt to batt cable. Unfortunately my alt is on the underside of the engine and the battery is under the back seat so that makes it a little more interesting. If anyone has any more in input that would be grand, seeing as how now im being reduced to checking the entire trunk floor with a multimeter to determine ground potential.
_________________________
Clarion MAX 685BT / SoundStream Tarantula 440.2 - PowerBass Extreme 3XL 6.5 comps / SS TRA620.4 - PBX 3XL 5.25, 6x9 / SS TRA2000.1 - PBX 3XL 15D / Kinetic Power Batteries / 04 Pontiac Bonneville GXP.
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#1687848 - 08/01/09 07:41 AM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: 1loudGXP]
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keep_hope_alive
in another life, i'm a serial killer
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Registered: 04/24/07
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so when you used the toggle you turned the amp off with the toggle BEFORE you turned the car or head unit off?
if so, the problem is in the amp. no big 3 will fix that.
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#1687880 - 08/01/09 11:42 AM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: keep_hope_alive]
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xTHANATOPSISx
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Does any of your equipment have a fan, or are you running any? Back EMF can cause enough voltage to delay the turn-off of an amp for enough time (probably only miliseconds would be necessary) to cause the pop.
When you installed the toggle, did you install it to turn off the relay or the affected amp directly?
If you turned off all the devices triggered by the relay at once, try only powering off the amp that is making the pop.
If that stops the pop, try diode isolating the remote leads for each device after the fuse block. This will prevent another device's back EMF from effecting the turn-off time of other connected devices and amps.
In the end, it's still quite likely to be internal to the amp. Try searching for people with the same amp and same problem. you could also contact the manufacturer and if they are a quality bunch, they may either make it right or at least let you know its an on-going problem.
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#1687886 - 08/01/09 12:32 PM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: xTHANATOPSISx]
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1loudGXP
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Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Indiana
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well i thought it was the amp first, but i had ruled that out. I bought the original and the first time i powered it up and shut it down it made the pop. I actually replaced that with another brand new one and it did the same thing. Also, I do remember that when I had first installed the previous system in the car (similar system, only the amps, second battery, and 1/0 guage battery cable and batt ground are different) that my smallest amp did the same thing. Now, its the same thing, the smallest amp is popping @ turn off. That amp also consequently has the longest distance from the factory battery ground, which would lead me to believe that it also has the highest amount of resistance to ground. I never thought of diode isolating each output, that should fix it. Also, could the HU ground cause this? I realize that I have a TON of current flowing here, I have been told that the fact. ground to the hu is not optimal especially for systems with multiple grounds and high current. Im so spent on this... lol
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Clarion MAX 685BT / SoundStream Tarantula 440.2 - PowerBass Extreme 3XL 6.5 comps / SS TRA620.4 - PBX 3XL 5.25, 6x9 / SS TRA2000.1 - PBX 3XL 15D / Kinetic Power Batteries / 04 Pontiac Bonneville GXP.
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#1690092 - 08/06/09 10:23 AM
Re: i now have turn off pop? wtf?
[Re: 1loudGXP]
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xTHANATOPSISx
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The HU should be grounded to the chassis when ever possible. The ground in the stock harness is often of unknown length and likely
shared with several other components. It's not an optimal ground at all.
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