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#1495281 - 20/09/08 03:16 PM Best signal to use for setting gains....
The Return of Jason Gold
STROKER ver. 2.0
SD Gimp


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Ohio

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this is not a "how do i set my gains?" thread. Here's my dilema, i am getting vary different readings from different source material, such as sinewaves and pink noise. Here's what i did yesterday and the results from it:

Zues ZX6400 (85x4 @4ohm)
ch. 1/2 to 6.5" component set (50wrms)
ch. 3/4 to 4x6 coaxils (25wrms)

(2)Colossus 3200D (3200x1 @2ohm)
1 per coil on Stroker 15d2

(09.19.08 using db jams vol.4, recorded at 0dB, volume at 75% on HU. 1000Hz pink noise for ZX6400 and 50Hz sinewave for 3200D's)

Zues ZX6400
ch. 1/2= 15V= 56w
ch. 3/4= 10V= 25w

(2)Colossus 3200D (these were only set to match each other, not the headuint)
amp 1= 10.1V= 50w
amp 2= 10.0V= 50w

(09.20.08 using 1000Hz and 50Hz sinewaves downloaded from net, not sure if it's 0dB or not)

Zues ZX6400
ch. 1/2= 20V= 100w
ch. 3/4= 14V= 49w

(2)Colossus 3200D
amp 1= 5.8V= 18w
amp 2= 5.7V= 18w

So i get more output from the 4ch. using the downloaded 1000Hz sinewave over the pink noise recorded at 0dB, and less output from the monoblocks using the downloaded 50Hz tone compared to the 50Hz tone recorded at 0dB. Does this make sense to anyone else?

After using the settings from 09.19.08, it seems like the audio ouput was too high @75% power. Now after using toadys' setting the audio quality sounds much better, so i'm happy with the settings, but still trying to make sense of the numbers. Any thoughts?


Edited by The Return of Jason Gold (20/09/08 03:18 PM)
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#1495801 - 21/09/08 09:22 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: The Return of Jason Gold]
Sadistic_customs
SD Ralph Wiggum


Registered: 15/09/08
Posts: 70

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not sure of this you would have to get with the company you got the mic or soft ware from but the pink noise and sine waves could be the wrong one for that mic you got or program you got but not sure if that's correct because some rta's come with a pink noise signal generators and certain cds with pink noise and sound waves. just like if you set the gain on you amp at 1 volt and you cd player was putting out 2 volt the amp would force it self to put out max power with distortion.do not know if your using a rta or not but here is a link below to some. mfg model numbers nL1 and dL1 are rta's one is $1599.00 and the other is $644.99. got to remember when you got flat line on a rta it does not sound best but is what your shooting for in a sq match. it should be with in 3 dbs of all the bars next to each other. so when they are flat they are not set correctly. so slopes on a rta sound better then flat line which is a flat sound. no definition to bass or treble the only reason to use pink noise is when using a rta if setting by ear i just use a good sound quality cd

that's what i think

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/Analyzer/3830066

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#1495830 - 21/09/08 09:47 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: The Return of Jason Gold]
Sadistic_customs
SD Ralph Wiggum


Registered: 15/09/08
Posts: 70

Offline
it looks correct the only thin i am wondering about is the 100 watt out put on the zx6400 is it rated at that if not it mite be a unregulated power supply. had it happen to me on a power acoustic amp those low end amp are the reasons people get stumped
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#1495860 - 21/09/08 10:17 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: The Return of Jason Gold]
Sadistic_customs
SD Ralph Wiggum


Registered: 15/09/08
Posts: 70

Offline
is the 15 and 20 v taken going in to the amp from the alternator/battery or is it being put out by the amp channels? i think that amp is only meant for 12.5 to 14.4 volts unsure thought from the bats / alts. if it happens during highway driving you may blow some amps and speakers because you up graded you alt to a high output alt or bat. this mite be were it seamed unregulated power supply but a 20 v surge would make on hell of a discussion lol
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#1496953 - 23/09/08 10:12 AM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: The Return of Jason Gold]
TtownCLS Moderator
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First off. I wouldn't use Pink noise to check output levels of an amplifier. There's just too much going on to get an accurate reading.

Second. What are you measuring the voltage with? It really doesn't surprise me that the pink noise had a lower output on a simple voltmeter.

Third. I wouldn't trust tones downloaded from anywhere unless I verified the tone to be true to the frequency and actually at 0db.

If you know somebody that has an o-scope, hook that up and see what the peak to peak voltage is using a good commercial CD with a true 1khz 0db tone and a true 50hz 0db tone.

As for this statement
 Quote:
got to remember when you got flat line on a rta it does not sound best but is what your shooting for in a sq match. it should be with in 3 dbs of all the bars next to each other

That's true when you are running the system in something like a RTA freq out event. That's not what any of us use in real sound quality competitions. My RTA curve used in judging is FAR from flat. I can't say I've ever used a rta to measure amp output anyway. I would be interested in hearing that method. Or maybe I just mis-understood something.
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#1497919 - 24/09/08 02:32 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: TtownCLS]
The Return of Jason Gold
STROKER ver. 2.0
SD Gimp


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Ohio

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Sadistic- i am measuring the ac voltage output of the audio channels. the zx6400 is rated at 85x4, so 100 watts isn't out of the realm of possibilty at 4ohm, it's the fact that one i got a reading of 50watts (recorded at 0dB) and then the next day i downloaded a 50Hz and 1000Hz sinwave from the net. the 4 channel putout more power with the downloading recording while the monoblocks putout less. the only thing i can think of is that these tones were not recorded at the same level.

TtownCLS- i didn't want to but that's all the was on the Bass Mekanik and dB Drag CD's. that's why i downloaded a 1000Hz test tone, but i just don't know how it was recorded. (you hit that point) and i am using a DMM.

Thanks for the replys. Ima have to give Sam Horn a call!
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Alpine ~ Cerwin-Vega! ~ HiFonics ~ KnuKonceptz ~ Pioneer


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#1497938 - 24/09/08 02:53 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: TtownCLS]
Sadistic_customs
SD Ralph Wiggum


Registered: 15/09/08
Posts: 70

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TtownCLS
First off. I wouldn't use Pink noise to check output levels of an amplifier. There's just too much going on to get an accurate reading.

Second. What are you measuring the voltage with? It really doesn't surprise me that the pink noise had a lower output on a simple voltmeter.

Third. I wouldn't trust tones downloaded from anywhere unless I verified the tone to be true to the frequency and actually at 0db.

If you know somebody that has an o-scope, hook that up and see what the peak to peak voltage is using a good commercial CD with a true 1khz 0db tone and a true 50hz 0db tone.

As for this statement
 Quote:
got to remember when you got flat line on a rta it does not sound best but is what your shooting for in a sq match. it should be with in 3 dbs of all the bars next to each other

That's true when you are running the system in something like a RTA freq out event. That's not what any of us use in real sound quality competitions. My RTA curve used in judging is FAR from flat. I can't say I've ever used a rta to measure amp output anyway. I would be interested in hearing that method. Or maybe I just mis-understood something.



I never set by output with a rta maybe a little misunderstood at that point

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#1497946 - 24/09/08 02:58 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: The Return of Jason Gold]
Sadistic_customs
SD Ralph Wiggum


Registered: 15/09/08
Posts: 70

Offline
 Originally Posted By: The Return of Jason Gold
Sadistic- i am measuring the ac voltage output of the audio channels. the zx6400 is rated at 85x4, so 100 watts isn't out of the realm of possibilty at 4ohm, it's the fact that one i got a reading of 50watts (recorded at 0dB) and then the next day i downloaded a 50Hz and 1000Hz sinwave from the net. the 4 channel putout more power with the downloading recording while the monoblocks putout less. the only thing i can think of is that these tones were not recorded at the same level.

TtownCLS- i didn't want to but that's all the was on the Bass Mekanik and dB Drag CD's. that's why i downloaded a 1000Hz test tone, but i just don't know how it was recorded. (you hit that point) and i am using a DMM.

Thanks for the replys. Ima have to give Sam Horn a call!



right what i was thinking is you may have had battery rise or some thing to get the 100 watts because if you notice all but the 15 and 20 volts were all 14 volts if you get more input to your amp your going to have a higher out put unless it regulated most amp will say in the owenwers manual 11-24 volts allowable but it mite be measure at 85x4 @14.4v and you hit 16 v inother words not a big deal.

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#1499502 - 26/09/08 01:50 PM Re: Best signal to use for setting gains.... [Re: Sadistic_customs]
The Return of Jason Gold
STROKER ver. 2.0
SD Gimp


Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Ohio

Offline
yeah the input voltage was 14v for both tests. i think its in in the recordings where te difference is. i need to get a better cd, that i can tune everything off of, that way i know everything is being set to one standard.
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MUSIC POWERED BY THE GODS!!!

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