#1475112 - 19/08/08 08:05 PM
Need a real set of X overs.
|
Homey
Junior Member
Registered: 28/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Michigan
|
Offline
|
|
If you look at the bottom of my post you will see the amps I am running and gear.
The Diamond components I am running are the D661s. Probably need to upgrade these.
The stock crossovers are not cutting it for me.
What are some good crossovers I can replace them with??
I am not sure its the x overs though. They are letting to much low pass in but I can control that with the EQX. So no worries there.
The set sounds muddy and not real defined. Not great separation of instruments.
Its kind of annoying. I thought they would sound a lot better than they do.
The reason I am thinking is that there is too much high end playing in the mids and to much low end playing thru the tweets.
I think they are over lapping and causing my issues.
I could be way off though and the X overs have nothing to do with it.
Thoughts? Diamond is junk??
The PDX doesn't have enough juice?
I am working in Buffalo. Anyone close by that can listen and tell me what is jacked?
_________________________
Steven
Alpine 9851
Alpine PDX 4.150
Alpine PDX 1.1000
Soundstream 6.5 components rear fill.
Diamond 6.5 components installed front.
Kicker 12" L5 sub
Audio control EQX
In a Jeep Cherokee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1475785 - 20/08/08 06:00 PM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: Homey]
|
Foam
Team SoundDomain
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 438
|
|
Offline
|
|
Most passives don't really do anything with the midrange. They expect you to use a high pass electronic crossover for the low side of the mid and they let the midrange roll off naturally on the high end.
You could go active. Don't think off the shelf generic passives will help anything. You need passives built specifically for the speakers. So you would have to build your own if you wanted to stay passive.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1476083 - 21/08/08 06:20 AM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: Foam]
|
keep_hope_alive
Snooch to the Nooch
SD I chew on Mike Tyson's ear
Registered: 24/04/07
Posts: 8651
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
|
Online
|
|
the soundstream components in the rear could be causing your issues as well. turn them off and just run your Diamonds when doing any troubleshooting.
Building passive crossovers can be simple or very involved depending on your level of effort.
it would be much faster and easier to go active and eliminate the low quality rear speakers. that way you can play with crossover points. after you nail it down, you can build passives that will mimic those settings, if you want.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1485904 - 04/09/08 11:21 PM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: keep_hope_alive]
|
Homey
Junior Member
Registered: 28/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Michigan
|
|
Offline
|
|
the soundstream components in the rear could be causing your issues as well. turn them off and just run your Diamonds when doing any troubleshooting.
Building passive crossovers can be simple or very involved depending on your level of effort.
it would be much faster and easier to go active and eliminate the low quality rear speakers. that way you can play with crossover points. after you nail it down, you can build passives that will mimic those settings, if you want.
Actually I had a set of the SoundStream 5 1/4's in the front to begin with. I also had a lower level amp too. The sounstreams sounded better than the Diamonds do now.
The rear fill helps actually. If I turn them off the Diamonds really sound bad.
Thanks for the advice though. I was hoping some one would say to buy a set of this or that. Maybe CDT or something. But guess not..
I think I am going to re wire everything and start over. Then start eliminating things to find the problem. Could be a long winter for me.. Ha.
I thought I was improving but it got worse.
_________________________
Steven
Alpine 9851
Alpine PDX 4.150
Alpine PDX 1.1000
Soundstream 6.5 components rear fill.
Diamond 6.5 components installed front.
Kicker 12" L5 sub
Audio control EQX
In a Jeep Cherokee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1485965 - 05/09/08 07:19 AM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: Homey]
|
keep_hope_alive
Snooch to the Nooch
SD I chew on Mike Tyson's ear
Registered: 24/04/07
Posts: 8651
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
|
|
Online
|
|
just buying new speakers without determining why you're having issues with the current ones will not solve anything - it will just waste your money.
you should be able to get your speakers sounding good. installation is everything. also, if you're using the EQX that can hurt as much as help. what are your current EQX settings?
the diamonds should sound best when ran by themselves. if not, you have an issue with the installation. re-wiring won't hurt but it shouldn't make a difference (unless the wire is currently damaged). just redoing all of your connections (at speaker, crossover, and amp) would be a better use of time.
i can suggest plenty of new speakers to buy, but i prefer to wring out every bit of SQ i can from a set before i upgrade. when you do upgrade, spend as much as you can on one good set.
another good investment is sound deadening and deflex pads for the front doors. spending time with tweeter aiming and location can yield good results.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1486787 - 06/09/08 11:00 PM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: MA585]
|
Homey
Junior Member
Registered: 28/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Michigan
|
|
Offline
|
|
Oh Sorry. I meant a set of CDT x-overs. Not a whole new set of speakers.
As for the Dynomat. No I haven't touched the doors. But I have the speakers in a set of kick panels so I haven't got around to it. Its one of the things on the top of my list.
I really need to deaden the whole truck but its hard to do when I am working in Buffalo and live in Michigan.
As for the wiring that requires an explanation.
I had my original system in the truck. It was sounding real good but I was ready to upgrade.
I bought the 2 Alpine PDX amps and the Diamonds at a shop that claimed they were top notch. They offered to install my new stuff for free since I spent so much in the store.
Anyway I had a job to do in Texas so I stopped in on the way through since I had a few hours and thought it would be nice to listen to the new tunes on the 28 hour drive I had in front of me.
Anyway long story shortened. I got tired of waiting after several hours and went into the garage to check how much longer it would be. When I got back there I could not believe it.
The installer had every inch of wiring out of the truck and in a pile on the floor.
He even went so far as to remove my front seat and take the old amp out I had personally custom installed there my self.
I asked WTF because I am short on time and have to get on the road. He said oh I always like to use the stock wiring. So you rip out all the good wiring I spent a whole day putting in. When all you were to do was change out speakers and amps?
Man I was pissed. So it gets to almost closing time before I get out of there. Man what a bad day that was.
Now I need to rewire the whole system because of that J.A. and I don't buy that the stock wire is as good as the stuff I had in there.
Plus that adds another issue about positives and negatives. [censored] I can't believe I have never checked that out before.
Man I am a moron.. uggg.
Thanks guys
_________________________
Steven
Alpine 9851
Alpine PDX 4.150
Alpine PDX 1.1000
Soundstream 6.5 components rear fill.
Diamond 6.5 components installed front.
Kicker 12" L5 sub
Audio control EQX
In a Jeep Cherokee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1486824 - 07/09/08 06:48 AM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: Homey]
|
keep_hope_alive
Snooch to the Nooch
SD I chew on Mike Tyson's ear
Registered: 24/04/07
Posts: 8651
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
|
|
Online
|
|
wow. what an awful experience. stock wiring is never better than aftermarket wiring. hell, my entire system does not use a single inch of stock wiring except one wire that triggers one relay (ignition) - nothing associated with the audio system has current through stock wiring.
i can see the logic is redoing the wiring from scratch to ensure everything is perfect (and removing seats is just part of installing wire). but they should have communicated that to you - especially if you were waiting at the shop.
polarity is important, but electrical phase and acoustical phase are different. always start with everything in electrical phase. when you start trying to set up a good sound stage you will experiment with acoustical phase.
the passive crossovers you use for the speakers need to be made specifically for those speakers. you will get unpredictable results buying separate crossovers. that said, there are some crossovers that would be "universal" provided the impedance is the same.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1486875 - 07/09/08 09:24 AM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: keep_hope_alive]
|
Foam
Team SoundDomain
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 438
|
|
Offline
|
|
If you have that 6 1/2 in a qform and you didn't do anything to vent it to the outside of the vehicle, and you are playing it down into the midbass range, that would explain your muddiness. No amount of EQ or crossover selection is going to fix that. Mids need airspace just like subs. It would be like putting a 15" sub in .01 cubic foot enclosure. you get the same results.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1490376 - 12/09/08 07:11 PM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: Foam]
|
Homey
Junior Member
Registered: 28/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Michigan
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks for the concern.
Yes it was an horrible experience. I get there at 10 am. all thats needed is a little trimming to fit the 6 1/2 in a 5 1/4 hole. mount the speakers and tweets. Unplug the wiring from my 2 existing amps and mount the new amps. Then connect all wiring.
Pretty basic when I already have 4 gage power and ground from the distribution blocks (less than 12 inches for ground) to hook to the new amps. Then I already have red + Black 14 gage ran for the speakers. The rear fills are already hooked up. Red positive black negative. plus all the RCA's are ran. Super basic right.??
I am thinking I'll be on the road by lunch time. Not even close. I was there till almost 5 PM.
I understand the phase difference between the electrical and acoustical levels. But to be honest the only time I have had issues with the acoustical is when dealing with subs. Maybe my ears are not good enough to tell in the higher ranges.
Andy. Man I hear you loud and clear on the porting of the Kicks.
I never even considered that.
I did however ask here a long while ago about where I could go to find enclosure specs for the diamonds.
Is there anywhere I can go online to enter all the #'s to come up with optimal enclosure size for them?
I use to have the MTX speaker box program and 1 other that I can't remember the name of. But I think I gave them away 12 years ago.
I'll do my best to figure out the enclosure size I have now. But need a good reference to use before I go and add a port.
Andy Jones?? Are you the Andy Jones that was competing in (winning) IASCA events in the early 90's??
_________________________
Steven
Alpine 9851
Alpine PDX 4.150
Alpine PDX 1.1000
Soundstream 6.5 components rear fill.
Diamond 6.5 components installed front.
Kicker 12" L5 sub
Audio control EQX
In a Jeep Cherokee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1490840 - 14/09/08 04:24 PM
Re: Need a real set of X overs.
[Re: Homey]
|
keep_hope_alive
Snooch to the Nooch
SD I chew on Mike Tyson's ear
Registered: 24/04/07
Posts: 8651
Loc: Quad Cities, IL
|
|
Online
|
|
good catch on the q forms, i missed that.
you should be able to get the specs from the manufacturer or the manual/instructions that came with the speakers.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: TtownCLS, Ben Vollmer, keep_hope_alive, SuperJay, SQLAltima
|
81180 Members
29 Forums
182741 Topics
1262774 Posts
Max Online: 754 @ 10/03/08 07:00 PM
|
|
|
